Thread regarding Bombardier layoffs

Bombardier Belfast Plants : Too many Indirect and non value added staff. Ballroot Management with a bullying corner boy mentality.

The amount of experienced and quality employees that have been laid off at Bombardier Belfast over the last 10 years has been shocking

It's not what you know, but rather who you know or who you brown nose. The good workers get hammered about efficiencies and productivity where as the workers with hands like feet, that couldn't fit thier finger up thier nose but can squeal like a pig and carry tales from the shop floor to the offices, seem to get all the handy jobs, over time and promotions.

The games not straight.

If the Bombardier Head office had the balls to have a complete overhaul of the management/directors/staff in Belfast then I have no doubt the Northern Ireland side of the operation would be great once again.

Too many managers and indirect staff that,

honestly, have no added value to the company.

Also the style of management that is encourage in Belfast can only be described as nothing more than a bullying corner boy mentality, this seemed to be acceptable 20-30 years ago, but the way society has moved on from then we should be seeing employees treated with empathy, coached and mentored and be able to work freely without the unessisary peer pressure placed on them by managers.

Bombardier Belfast has been on a downward spiral for the last 15 years. Moving contracts out of the country to places where they can get the job done cheaper.

They have put all their eggs in one basket with this new c series and it's becoming apparent that this in its self has been a huge mistake.

To be honest when it was Shorts Brothers at least they done work for a range of companies in the aerospace industry, I think it's called keeping your fingers in a few pies. A nice warm apple pie with a dollop of ice cream may i add.

I would suggest that bombardier head office look into who Belfast bring in work from other companies i.e. Airbus, Fokker, Boeing etc.

Good Day Sir!

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Bombardier alleging bullying by Boeing. Bombardier should know better. Boeing was the bread and butter for Northern Ireland, unfortunately bombardiers arrogance has eroded and brought the aviation manufacturing industry here into disrepute. Boeing will not be bullied like most of bombardiers workforce. All the interventions by government now to late as the governments failed to see what was going on under there noses for years. Bombardier hate government and audits. When there is monetary support from governments though bombardier will gladly take it and give themselves pay rises. Most of the talk at the minute is NI's highly skilled workforce when they deem most of the people building the products as semi skilled, monkeys I remember them being called. Then employing agency workers, working with a dark cloud above their head depending on managements mood on the day. "Don't forget you are temporary". Who Is bullying who. Maybe Boeing are just protecting their workers and want to build products on a level playing field so that they can continue to do so without the fear of a downturn where they operate. Bombardier price dumping subsidized by governments is in my opinion unethical and not what you would expect in this industry. Time will tell.

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Alan Elder. Top bombardier magician, when not managing ............ He can't pull a rabbit out of a hat yet. Although he can pull a hare out of his hole. As he does nothing else and thinks the Canadians are stupid. Bring on a real focused audit. NI.

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Is the resin used in the C Series wings really not UV resistant and can deteriorate and weaken.

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is my manager, a fine bloke with a brown nose

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I would not agree with this

Bombardier Belfast has been on a downward spiral for the last 15 years.

Last few years were bad

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, at least one of us will be taken care of after losing a job. I see you a great future as an newspaper editor.

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The grammar, punctuation and spelling here is atrocious.

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Good honesty on here, I know of that inspector that was attacked in Newtownabbey. Bit weird but appeared to do his best and more for the company and really respected the workers. He seemed to take his role very seriously, but why wouldn't he. He was responsible for all of the autoclave thermal data relating to all of the components cured in Newtownabbey and also the raw material freezer data and more. The situation is not nice for anyone affected or potentially affected but management appear to use the redundancy process to eliminate people they deem not to fit in. There is cost cutting then there is corner cutting. If sports direct boss can be held accountable why not bombardier who appear to do what they like in Belfast and nobody questions them.

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More top managers and directors walking into the sunset with pots of money while the rest of us poor souls have to stay

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, well said. I agree with this part of your post completely:

We at Belfast have GAVE OUR 20% AND THEN SOME it's time for our friends across the water to step up!

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Looks like the post by "Stand Together Fitters" is from one of our managers, probably one of those bullying corner boy managers.

I could name a dozen of them and also some spineless HR personnel to go along with them

"We spoke today" who is "we"?

Have we hit a nerve with the bombardier managment in Belfast?

It's you who should "take a reddened"

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There seems to be a Common Theme from most of the posts I have read Bombardier Employees Feel Undervalued, Workforce Opinion falls on Deaf Ears, Constant Job Insecurity And the Relentless Push for More for Less is taking its toll on all the Workforce having worked at company for 25 years I have seen many ups and downs but morale is the the lowest I can ever remember Why is this? employees have clearly stated their opinions and feelings are these claims justifiable! I Believe So Management in the Belfast site cannot be held accountable for all the ill feeling but they contribute to a very large portion of the current general mood corner boy mentality still lingers and this petty attitude gets ingnored at senior levels possibly encouraged to some degree, I have the pleasure of working along side a lot of highly skilled hard working enthusiastic people shop floor and staff alike but these relationships are suffering to some degree with the constant pressure of COST Reductions many departments are running well below what's is required to achieve the great standard we have always achieved In short Belfast is damaging itself this is clearly evident why! Our Canadian Owners are Pushing to Hard asking for unrealistic targets with the budget and manning levels we have at Belfast to give a clear and concise reason of why sometimes we cannot meet targets,schedule,quality of work,is merely looked upon as an excuse this is well known at a senior level within the company but no one will put their neck on the proverbial chopping block and push back for fear of Being Made Redundant! Many Belfast Employees have travelled to Canadian sites and witnessed first hand a Far Less Cash Containment Environment a Better Payed Workforce with all the Required Manning Levels and Tools at their disposal to get the job done Yet Belfast Suffers! It's a Them and US culture a Second Rate Sibling if u like! We at Belfast have GAVE OUR 20% AND THEN SOME it's time for our friends across the water to step up! How much more can we give how many people have to to lose their jobs how much is enough! Unfortunately no matter how much we graft IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH

Our working terms and conditions are constantly being eroded constant deskilling of what once was a highly skilled workforce! THE FUTURE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE SO BRIGHT!.....

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We spoke today and can't believe the amount of balls is talked on this page . All you have done is made fools out of yourselves blaming everybody but yourselves the managers CLf guys .. Take a redner . MR saved us several times no problems .. Yes he needs to cut costs and he will . Out shop floor managers are great having to put up with a lot of crying boys working in a mans world .. If you don't like the place leave and let us fix it for our future and for that of our kids. Y'all need to grow up act your age and start performing Day in day out . Seriously I feel really embarrassed with some of the early comments really ..

Shop floor workers .

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We heard that inspector attacked the managers hand with his throat, its a not well known chinese attack move were led to believe . The manager ended up needing intesive wrist therapy but thankfully being a manager and therefore more important than the common soldiery BUPA was there to take care of him unlike our lowly inspector who waited 3 weeks to see a GP who finally got him a hospital appointment 18 months after the incident.

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What about the manager in Newtownabbey who thought the best way to win an argument was to grab an inspector by the throat. The outcome? Yes, you guessed it, the inspector got a final warning.

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Whats the gov doing? Bombardier owe a lot of money to the British taxpayers, wheres our Trump? We need leaders with big plums willing to sanction the sweet living bejesus out of them! They have an endless pot of money from quebec lets take it and give it to local businesses and help them employ the thousands being made surplus to requirements.

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Ive worked directly for bombardier and indirectly as part of their supply chain. I can tell you that they are known to be delay payers to their vendors, a company policy that has driven many a small company to the brink of bankruptcy. They have no corporate conscience and are not a good company to work for directly or otherwise. Im not suprised at all by the venom witnessed here, shorts has the reputation of being a good company to work for, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Every day the guys turn up willing and able to deliver the goods only to be told with alarming frequency that they do not have the parts, consumables or in some cases even the tools to do what is being asked of them. Why? Parts needed are either late from forign vendors, incorrect and rejected, late or not available because local local suppliers haven't been paid, or through mismanagement of our schedules. Then they have the operations managers breathing down their necks about the efficiency of the organisation. Of course the men feed back the reasons but managment call reasons excuses - and they dont accept excuses! Then I heard the company were looking for working parties to go to china, mexico and Waterford because the work they have farmed out is not making the grade. So the guys are being asked to go abroad away from their families to show uneducated rice farmers and the like how to do their job, like being paid to speed up your future unemployment. These are ony some of the reasons I left and there are many many more. Public opinion of shorts seems to be that the government keep it afloat with grants, like they are a bunch of wasters creaming off public money. The fact is, nearly all the money given to shorts is not given - its leant in the form of low interest loans. Loans must be paid back, so if the assembly want to see the millions invested over the years back, they should start leaning on them and ask the CEO why he has a long term strategy of reducing the workforce in belfast to 'advance to higher value products' by ridding the site of the labour intensive structures they currently build. Shorts will always be there, but the company is evolving into a service site and less of a manufacturing site. Im just glad im out of the toxic atmosphere where coruption, favouritism and nepotism are part of everyday life!

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I didn't realise how much hatred and anger is out there for bumbardier. Look at it if it was your money why would you pay over the odds for work you need done. Bumbardier need parts NI cost is too much so they go cheap to all the places mentioned already im personally effected as many of you are or will be to but whats the point in gurning about it.

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Lets cut the bollax here about top heavy or whatever these jobs are going cos they have a workforce willing to work for £2 per hour and less thats the bottom line here. If you check google even the chinks are using cheap labour in ethiopia!!!!!!!! Cos the chinks want too much money now. Bombardier are finished and im glad to see it yes im losing my job but its bettervthan working for those lying bastards one minute longer. Yes i did ask for VR.

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You should try being in hallmark. We got told by mid October the doors will be locked and all sheet metal work will be out in Mexico within ten years cos it's cheaper.

It's only a material of time till the whole lots out there.

But the keek our management feed us is unreal they must think we don't talk to each other

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Dear colleagues

Here in Belfast we have at the time of this story roughly around 4000 employees, I will disregard the CLF at this juncture, out of those 4000 employees around 600 are managerial graded positions which equates to approxiametly 1 manager for every 6/7 employees, this is public sector type levels and as proven totally unsustainable but in reality we have managers in charge of up to 100 reports and managers with no direct reports at all! They have asked us to be more efficient and to challange the way things are done but heres my challange to them, quantify how you expect ordinary shopfloor workers to change the mindset of instituionalised bullying management here in Belfast when we have so many layers of management, beurocracy and red tape to go through? Inefficient is too kind a word to use but it will have to suffice on this occasion, managers dont lose their jobs for being inefficient or even incompetant they are just moved around departments until they reach the point were they can get their golden handshakes and ride off into the sunset very well off and probably a BUPA sponsored anal exam for them and their entire family whilst having offered next to almost nothing in the way of progressing the company in their later years or in some cases ever.

We as a shopfloor unit are the best that there is here in Belfast we continually fix the many mistakes made by these low wage alternatives and due to our humilty we tend not to get all high five about it, we just want to work for a company who respect us and treat us fairly and pay us fairly.

In recent years we have tried to challange the norm, tried to expose the inefficiency of Belfasts management structure but Canada are either turning a blind eye or the information isnt getting through,some of us have put our heads above the horizon and have saved Bombardier hundreds of thousands of dollars through using the xcell system but yet we receive very little in gratuity whilst our many layers of management take most of the plaudits and also a performance related bonus, we take home £17.50 for our effort!

Bombardier management here in Belfast are too institutionalised too arrogant and too blasie about our current position, maybe theyre all supremly confident in their own ability which in my humble opinion is rather misplaced as I wouldnt trust a majority of them to run a bath let alone an ailing aircraft company, none of them have what it takes to steer us through this, none of them have the experience nor the desire,and what is the retoric being convayed to the shopfloor, we must work harder, we must take paycuts, we must work longer hours yet we are the guys and girls who clock in and out, we are the producers who create profits yet we are the ones who suffer the vitriol from an over payed underskilled heirarchy that stands in the way of progress.Maybe its a plain fact that the way in which Bombardier and previously Shorts in Belfast have a "jobs for the boys" type promotion system for the past 40-50 years that managers now feel beyond reproach even through the worst Bombardier crisis in its history.Michael Ryan calls them to management meetings every so often, im not sure if Michael burdens most of the worries to a certain point before taking them to task or its due to the fact it takes 3 days to brief his entire harem due to the sheer numbers involved but either way theres a real lack of urgency amongst the management and it shows us that our fate is sealed.

We have overheard and seen various managers salivating about how they were going to just take voluntary redundancies rather than stay and earn their wages and try and get us out of this mess whilst others are saying its not Belfasts problem as we are making better than predicted returns, just what is the story? we post profits year on year as a unit but not enough!Again I challange Bombardier to convince the shopfloor staff of Belfast what it is that you are going to do to help us? We dont buy your "higher value" work bullshit, work is work and we should be fighting to keep everything here.

I have a suspicion it will be business as usual for Belfast, the same old out of date and out of touch heirarchy of managment with more layers than an onion continue to coin in the wages for doing absolutely nothing constructive other than seeing out their days with the hope of a big pay out. On the other hand the rest of us, we made a huge mistake by allowing Bombardier to use CLF, Bombardier and our unions are the only ones who have really benfitted from the CLF by increasing their membership subsidies to central headquarters which in itself is an utter disgrace and abuse of their power and all full time voting members should be urged to contact the head office of Unite and GMB and ask why our union take money from our colleagues who have no voting rights and who cannot take industrial action should it arise which are the basic fundemental rights of being a union member.

Its like this some of us have been here a long time, a lifetime in fact and have been through some real tough times, there is an atmosphere within the company now that can never be redressed, we know it and you certainly know it, our jobs are destined for Mexico, Morrocco, China or some other cheap labour ghetto as Bombardier have brought in butchers like jim vounassis who are only interested in the bottom line and profit margins, he has history here in Northern Ireland as the guy who shut the Baker Hughes factory inspite of the huge governent grants the company received over the years and the best efforts of our goverment to keep the jobs here, I very much suspect thats were we are heading with Bombardier the only difference is that we are not gullible enough to think that a 20% reduction will save our jobs longer term, nor am I prepared to take pay cuts, longer working hours or any changes to my terms and conditions of employment under any circumstances nor would the vast majority of Belfast, you see we think Bombardiers Belfast management are full of sh-- to be honest but dont feel I am singling out just belfast as I think Bellamare and the rest of the board are full of sh-- also, big men with expensive suits and designer y-fronts are not exactly sending shivers down to my toes nor will I stand for this 20% contempteous figure one moment longer, we have a saying in Belfast "youll not get a wing", its an old saying from generations ago but it rings very true literally at this present time.

Personally I dont want to see any of us losing our jobs but its going to happen, we have chinless wonders pretending to represent us both in the unions and government. All we can hope for is with the death of Bombardier we see a rise in local entrepreneurs willing to fill the voids left behind by this debt ridden, tax dodging, public funded private parasite.

The times are a changing and the small people, the ordinary people, the decent people need to stand up and fight these corporate whores not each other! We have started the process already by rejecting that ridiculous pay offer, we have nothing to lose now our jobs are going but we must stick together and we can beat them, im not offering job security here but neither are they but what is on offer is the sweet taste of justice, this company brought no aerospace experience whatsoever to the table when they bought shorts they then chased off Boeing and other 3rd party work out of sheer arrogance and with no regard for a future here, they have drained us of skills and money for decades and now they think they're going to just dump us like were some cheap tart. Lets beat it right up them and show them what we're made off here in Ulster!

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Pipe shop last year 106 shop floor workers now down till 54 still more till go in this pay off. Thats nearly 50% gone How many from UP THE STAIRS ( managers, engineers, methods, material planning) in the same department have gone You guessed it fecken NONE

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Well the other 399 that applied better take the application back ....I want out ta fck

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Here Here

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An Airbus or Boeing production factory in Belfast would be amazing.

Let Bombardier take the heap back to Canada or anywhere else it decides to.

A note to Mr Alain M. Bellemare, get your house in order and see how it benefits the company.

The Bombardoer board meetings must resemble a group of ostriches with thier big fat heads buried very deep in the sand.

Oh wait sure the Canadian government will just bail them out again and again

More fool on the tax payers who actually foot the bill.

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The company is too heavy, we are losing contracts to other sites, some middle management are lying usual tossers, so are some staff and so are some shop floor. As I have had the privilege of working on numerous Belfast Bombardier site I can say the company is going bad for more than just the above and yet all of the above as well. The company Including Belfast is in difs due to a number of factors, but mainly because too many new contracts tried to be fired up at once and Billions lost. I feel you all lads, agree with a lot, but staff, manager and others have been and are getting paid off and understandable as work has dried up. But it's not nice for anyone to go through getting a letter and leaving, unwillingly that is. Agreed some managers need to just tell the truth and not what their bosses want to hear, but that's up to the top to sort that out. And yes, it could be a joke that unskilled can be made up just on merit of an interview, but again I don't wanna knock that person for doing better for themselves, well done, however yes the senior management should ask are these promotional positions really required (no they're not). But again Belfast have developed a system were you need 20 people to delivers a few parts to the line, we buy in more than we make, so hence more indirect bites needed etc, we have fitters who don't wanna actually fit, just assemble, slightly thing wrong it's calling down quality or methods etc, so hence more staff needed. We're all the problem..

It's simple we're all up sh-- creek. A shake up is needed, but most importantly new contracts, orders, lower energy bills, less wasted money on outside suppliers whom don't care for the organization, less over complicated systems, good ideas listened too, etc etc I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.

Chin up folks... Keep the fingers crossed.

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The place is rotten to the core, ive never known favouritism on such a grand scale. And the lies that are being told from middle management to the production managers and then of course unwittingly to the leadership team are absolutely disgraceful! But then this is what happens when incompetent people are promoted through the ranks and find themselves in a position where they have to make strategic decisions and realise they are way out of their depth. We have the skills, we have the technology - we just have poor leadership and crooked middle management to contend with. ....

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In fairness, there's no such thing as a skilled aircraft fitter in shorts. It's all work a monkey could do. Semi skilled fitting. The riveters job is harder

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Upgraded workers with hands like feet now claiming to be time served fitters couldn't make it'd think the worked with boxing gloves on.get them out before singling staff who have carried the firm for years.

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Guys calling themselves fitters who were painters or stacking shelves in previous jobs are now running around brown nosing managers and squeezing to keep their jobs.hands like'd think the were drinking holes with boxing gloves on

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How about the electrical side of things . Send the lear harnesses to Mexico 15 years ago they still send sh--e back to belfast to be fixed .so now send all the contracts v2500, br710, global slats out to Mexico just so they can send them back for repair, I'm sure it will jump up and bite them in the arse I've been a spark for over 30 years and I wouldn't get ion an aircraft with a Mexican harness . Meanwhile belfast electrical department has went from over 60 to less than 10 in the last couple of years .absolute disgrace

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Belfast opened up V.R 2 weeks ago to 95 people, they got over 400 people applying for it.

Surely that would tell the senior management they have Big Problems.:-(

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I whole heartedly agree in my opinion there are far to many chiefs and not enough Indians (please excuse the terminology) the firm is top heavy and it's the workers on the floor that get hammered might I add the averge age of the shop floor must be late forties-fifty and this yr there is no apprentice intake it spells doom for the company. When I was a fresh faced apprentice the older worker's would say to us (the young ones) you's are the future of this place all I can say where is this future. Northern Ireland seem to be losing industry jobs all the time and not gain new industry I dread to think what will happen when we lose more skilled jobs. I would like to see bombardier Belfast (shorts) get bought over and continue making aircraft so shorts have been making aircraft longer than bombardier we have workers with great skill sets let's keep them working and let's get young blood into the place too


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What about the manager that was in cahoots with the fella stealing and selling the air tools?

When the fella was eventually caught stealling a pair of rivet squeezers he looked to his manager "Friend" to help him out but oh no the manager crawled under his rock and pleaded ignorance.

Apparently the fella produced a folder full of evidence that implicated the manager too but the company didn't want to know and turned a blind eye.

The manager is still walking around the main factory like c--- of the north.

Very Small minded from the company if you ask me.

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You also forgot to mention the female staff on equal pay, but refuse to do equal fitting work. Either turn on the water works, get the crutch out and develop a weekday limp or pull out a coloured card. Scandalous

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Well said.

You forgot to mention the Factory Manger, who liked to offer people outside, being sacked (sorry he got an extremely large payoff) for saying something grossly inappropriate to 3 other managers.

Wasn't his nickname canvas back or something? He liked to count the light in the Ulster hall apparently.

Hence the bullying corner boy mentality of management that you mentioned in your post.

Oompa Lumpa Opity Doo

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