Thread regarding DeVry Inc. layoffs

Online education has to change to become great

Online education could be great, but not as it is currently approached. The pressure to "persist" students is a central problem. The student-professor (instructor/facilitator) void is also a problem--even keenly committed faculty have difficulty filling it. Course design/shell content ensuring basic order often simultaneously ensures superficial, mediocre outcomes for the best and brightest. Online education needs its own pedagogical paradigm. Professors need control of these classes. The institution needs to accept failure rates and stop flooding courses with those ill-equipped to survive them. Students who come out of on-site classes, by the way, where deeper personal/professional relationships and hand-holding are possible and encouraged, are often the weakest performers in online environments. Too many students without basic skills are admitted, and too many professors have felt their pain, their hopelessness, their multi-generational disenfranchisement, and have passed them along, hoping somehow, that a higher moral right was being achieved. Education everywhere has been watered down, professors everywhere have lost authority in their classrooms, and students everywhere are paying more for and receiving less from their education.

Bumped from for excellent commentary on online education.

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It was upsetting to find nearly half of the employees were below average

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It would be much easier for instructors if the DeVry managers sent out the grade goals for each class, along with a required grade point average and grade point standard deviation just like the University of Phoenix did. Such criteria make grading much easier and improves cash flow. However, expecting the managers at DeVry to understand the concepts of average and standard deviation is most likely asking too much.

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has defined exactly the systemic corruption that is built into the for-profit model of higher education.

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Can we sue the Hamburgler and Rue Paul for wrecking our careers, our profession, our faith in education?

Well, can we sue Walmart for selling junk that falls apart in under 4 months, ends up on a landfill and will need replacing? Can we sue Walmart for running small stores out of town and for having Walmart on your resume be a career death sentence? NO. Of course not. What do you think the prevailing economic approach of the USA is? Jewish Kibbutz? Jeez. Capitalism runs on Caveat Emptor. Pure and simple.

Can we look down our noses at our students? Hell yes. Our students are weird, creepy, bizarre, smell bad, belligerent, argumentative, hostile, disorganized, lazy, entitled, whiny, don't speak English, have a chip on their shoulder, don't know the most basic rules of social interaction, have the entire range of DSM-5 mental disorders. I downright hate 90% of them.

Quit my job to serve your self-righteous indignation at what is happening at DeVry? Sure. Pay my bills, I'll quit. Right now. Please, pay my bills. I'll quit. No? No? Well then go shove your suggestion all the way to your sigmoid flexure.

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Brothels and soap dishes. Really?

I don't really think that there is anything funny about any of this, folks.

I agree that the place is a decaying nightmare zombie-school, waiting for the last flesh to fall from its bones before it sinks into the earth for its final unholy rest, but mocking students who are just trying to make something better for themselves just makes you look cruel and heartless. You should honestly just quit if that's how you see your students; you aren't doing them any favors by looking down your noses at them. You aren't doing us any favors by working here. Get out if you can't stand to help people who are trying to better themselves.

Call the devil by his name: DH is Daniel Hamburger. He wrecked DeVry and got away with it. RP is Rob Paul and he is a talentless pud who was obsessed with superheroes. Giving him that job helped wreck all of us. He was not a president, not a leader, and he could barely read off of a cue card. Name the names, say the words...those are the folks who destroyed the hopes of the students enrolled and faculty and staff employed. Has anyone researched whether or not we can personally sue these cretins for damage to our professional careers?

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-7fun: That was hilarious!

IQ of a soap dish and then cue the graduation video. I am still laughing. Brilliant.

I went back and looked at some DeVry graduation videos. Spot on -7fun. Spot on.

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It used to be considered the MIT of Technology education; but by selecting and promoting incompetent and mediocre people in top to lower management tiers, today, the organisation can best be described as an academic brothel. Its decline started when DK selected DH as its top dog, then DH selected DL as the head of academics division, then DL gathered her cronies around her and promoted them to key positions; RP(X), SB, DF, AK, TZ etc. are the key pimps of this academic brothel. There is no academic integrity; students are lied to and cheated on daily basis: the pimps of this academic brothel have perfected the art of deception; the accreditation bodies are continuously deceived by presenting them with fake data! One wonders how long government agencies will let his academic brothel exist without any accountability!

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ROFL. Enroll 'go-getters'. Riiiight. Now if these go-getters wanted to come to DeVry because they thought they would be getting a quality education here, no problem. If these go-getters arrived in sufficient numbers to keep the lights on and shareholders happy, no problem.

The problem is: Anybody with half a brain and the breeding to know what is up or down in education goes to a better school. Really, any school other than some for-profit is better.

Podonk state with their Podonk State Online College offering is better. Roll Podonk State. Go Podonkers! Yes, the 'online college' version of Podonk State is open-enrollment crap as well but it still has the brand name of Podonk State attached to the diploma and hiring managers don't know the difference. Yet. But EVERYBODY in management has heard of the evils of attending UoP, ITT tech and Everest.

Everybody else who has the IQ of a small soap dish and the breeding of a back country hick/inner city ghetto roach gets conned into coming to the 'better yourself' for-profit world where you too can get a Bachelor's if you just whine enough about not getting enough extra credit work/redos to shows ya bestasas wahk.

Solution? Kill FAFSA. The minute the DOE yanks federal funding this whole for-profit pyramid scheme falls apart. But so will the world of roughly 60% of all public and private not-for profit schools. DOE knows this. So what else to do?

1) Yank accreditation? Difficult to pull off as we have seen.

2) Merge VA money into the pool of federal funding rather than rate it as part of something else - that has some merit.

3) Wait for the market forces of supply and demand to do their thing. With this option you have to be patient and be OK with the fact that a small percentage of crap for-profits will continue to survive as long as we have soap dishes that aspire to become a turkey platter. Cue the video from graduation: A small, what looks like a desert plate, is bubbling with joy: "Ah am da fist Toikey Platter in mah family!"

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Why are those flunky students enrolled? Get rid of them and get some go-getters in their place. It's pretty simple, really.

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, that may be the best-written summary of the actual state of things that I have yet seen. Well done!

Last year I was assigned to teach at a different campus than my usual one. Many of the students there struggled a lot more and their grades reflected this. I expressed my concerns to the dean and was told that we don't fail them unless we have no other choice. Instead, we give them every opportunity to raise their grade before the session ends. This meant accepting late work, allowing retakes on quizzes, re-evaluating failed assignments, and whatever it takes to get their grades up to passing. At the time, I was surprised by this suggestion because I had never worked that way, but it seems to have become the norm now that we're hopelessly desperate. We literally cannot win.

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You can't fix a massive conflict of interest:

Admissions and Advising have to fear for their jobs if they don't enroll and then retain students.

Faculty are supposed to provide feedback to students on how they are doing academically using grades. The students at DeVry have the IQ of a peanut butter sandwich and should not have passed high school but there you are. If faculty hand the F's they should be handing out the students drop out or get kicked out.

Problem. Everybody knows, operations has more political power than academics. Here is what happens behind the scenes:

If instructors hand out the grades they should be handing out, basically a ton of F's, then admissions and advising have to fear for their jobs because students either fail out or drop out. Now these terrified folks bit$h up their food chain about these awful instructors. Leadership in operations now pounds on leadership in academics to 'do something' about these awful instructors who are not being nice to our customers. Instructors now have to listen to chairs basically telling them to up the class GPA or else. Now the instructors have to fear for their measly jobs. Some instructors tell leadership where to shove their dubious ethical approach to running a college but most don't have that ability so they shut up and put up. Fast forward a few years and you have a faculty who are 'trying their best' under pressure, students who are duped into thinking they are A students and a bunch of administrators who get to keep their $hitty jobs for a bit longer.

Welcome to for-profit education. Please pick up your complimentary bag full of cognitive dissonance at the HR office.

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The campus deans are in charge of enrollment and retention, not student action or service. You think DEVRY would allow an academic to be in charge of a campus? Heck no. It's all about the money, not education or students. Get that through your head. Nothing will ever change, EVER.

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Why not have the deans take on a more active role in defining what needs fixed and how to go about it at each location? They should have a lot of inputs into the needed changes, since they are at the helm of the delivery to students. It seems like they are kept in the dark too often, or on the backburner of change.

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DeVry is a communist/socialist organization. The corporation takes money from the state (student loans), provides a sub-standard service with no accountability for outcomes, and then allows the customers to bear all the risk of paying back their loans - which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. DeVry is an unethical and corrupt company dedicated to private profit obtained through government support while externalizing costs and risks to the public.

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Why isn't having an active campus student government group an accreditation requirement? Then, it might carry more traction. The professors, of course can join educational associations, or maybe the teachers union.

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Student government??? Are you people high? The 'students' at DeVry are mostly first generation students who are naive to the whole education thing. They don't know they are being duped! Often they are just happy that the dreaded college experience is such a cake walk not realizing they are shooting themselves in the foot by attending DeVry and loading up on FAFSA loans. VA students excluded of course, they get a free ride. AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT THEY PAID BY 'SERVING'. They got room, board, clothing and education while in the military. It was a freaking JOB. Ohhh, but some died, giving their life for their country. Uh, what? They didn't "give" their life. They were paid to do so. BIG difference. If your idea of a great career entails a job that can get you shipped off to a combat zone and killed, well, that is on you buddy. Don't make me sit here and kow-tow to you. Not happening.

Students can't fix what they don't see as being a problem. The professors know this is a scam. Can they even answer a timid question posted by a student about whether DeVry is 'worth it' or is a joke and they should look for a different school? No. Of course not. As a professor you have to toe the company line. It is a company, not some charity institution. Professors get paid by DeVry, not donations from nice people.

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Because it's easier to just go to a school that is better for them and probably cheaper. If I was them, I certainly wouldn't stick around.

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Well, if things are bad at the school, why wouldn't the students take action? It is their school, and they can always put forth the needed changes. Protest until they are implemented, pass out fliers, contact the media, government officials, etc.

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"Student Government" Jesus Christ on a Ritz Cracker with Raspberry Apricot cheese are you kidding me? There is no "Student Government". There is NOTHING that is student centered. It's all, entirely, unequivocally about bringing in money. Sign up student > get paid > move on to next student. Hello? Do people actually think they care about students there?

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Maybe the student government at Devry needs to take a stronger stand for improvements in the classroom, staffing and offerings. The body should push for better representation in the academic and management areas. Only by getting their positions addressed can there be hope for a turn around that is satisfactory. Maybe the time is right for a few protest marches.

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Wrong. Devry is not like other businesses. Other businesses have to offer something of value or they go out of business. Devry is in the unique position of selling vague hopes and dreams that require little or no money up front. If students can’t pay it back because they don’t make enough after graduation, their credit is ruined and the taxpayer is on the hook. Devry keeps its money. The only similar business is the subprime mortgage business which allowed people to buy houses beyond their means and which ruined their lives and the economy in the long run.

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Yes indeed. The business of america is to Make money. Devry is not different from any other corporations. It is only when the system melts that common sense will prevail temporarily. Then we are back to the bad habits again. It is called human greed.

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