How many super highly paid expats with their zillion allowances are out there? Each expat is at least a million dollars in cost. Eliminate 500 expats or move them back to their home base where possible. That is at least 500 million bucks. Could be even more. Will pay 25% of the next dividend obligation. That would be a good smart move for Chevron.
74 replies (most recent on top)
“Typical lonely loser virgin”.! Ouch. Someone please call me a wambukance because my feelings were hurt by an anonymous internet troll that’s butthurt and employed! Too funny!
Ah geez! No talk of spinners, please. We need serious discussion here. Don't you know that admins had to kill entire threads, good with bad, just to get rid of the spinner talk?
Yes, Asia is a good place for a typical lonely loser virgin who has nothing to do with their life but troll this forum. Sounds like someone with no life except for being jealous of those who have better positions than the expats sent off to get rid of them. Wear protection!! They say 4 out of 5 of those call girls are infected, many HIV positive. be careful!
As they say, “me love you long time!”
HUSP: Yes. I have never been unemployed. I just come on these boards to learn a little of what’s going on. I’ve been with CVX for 10 years. I’m in my mid 30’S and about to depart for my first “Gravy Train” expat Job in Asia.
So I can’t say that I’m exactly jealous....
gcws, That may be true for the retired successful guy below that you are jealous of and pathetically mock, but how about you? Any luck finding a job?
GSWN: based off of your message, it’s evident that you have essentially repeated the same message on this thread several times! You must be senile. You have already made your point Thad expat jobs are for losers who can’t get the same pay at home blah blah. You were a god that walks on water on your own eyes and are “happily” retired! Don’t you have anything new to add? Don’t you have anything better to do?
It's quite laughable at how many pathetic losers think that a do-nothing expat position geared toward incompetents who cannot be placed anywhere else due to their lack of skills is a plus for their declining career. Seriously? Why not find a position where you can actually contribute to your team and be productive? I've always enjoyed being a productive, efficient, member of my project team and have always been generously compensated and far better than I was any expat position than I held over the years, which was only a couple. I learned the expat scam early on. It's for losers who can't get decent positions and pay back home. You keep thinking that you are special, we need bodies to fill your space in any case, asleep or awake, it makes no difference. Be proud that they have a space for you. It doesn't even matter if it's space that could be filled by a public high school student, you've found your role in life, enjoy your alleged "gravy train"- LOL!
Now that oil is back in 60's, you might see more expat positions being added, and the gravy train getting expanded. Possibly the spring PDC.
I might take my own advice in 30 years when I’m near retirement age. In the meantime I’ll enjoy my “gravy train” expat assignment and make the most of it. Then when I hit that age you might see me at Home Depot. Until then I’ll enjoy trolling trolls on here and occasionally getting some useful information. Thanks for shopping with us!
The real sad part are those washed up “Have Beens” that think time means expertise and that can’t find anything better to do with their retirement than troll layoff forums trying to enlighten us with your sour “wisdom”. this only hits at “unhappily retired” or “retired by force”.
Go find a hobby or become a greeter at the local Walmart if you don’t have anything better to do because clearly you are not happily retired.
I should add that all my moving costs were also taxed which added to that high number on the 1040.
As an example, back in the early 90s I was an expat for SLB in Mexico. I got housing, car, premium, etc. My US salary prior to transfer was $52K. I did not get a raise as an expat. My first year taxable income (on the 1040 prepared for me) was $287K. I didn’t make enough base salary to pay the taxes on $287K. The USA taxes everything. Benefits in kind. Without tax equalization, nobody would be an expat.
is correct. Expats pay tax only on their base salary that they had been getting in their home country. Fo example, for the expats coming from US, it is their US base salary alone that is taxed. All the expat allowances --including housing allowance, goods & services surplus, spouse allowance, vacation travel allowance, R&R allowances and time off, and the host country premium, and other numerous benefits like children's schooling, car, driver, servents etc are all tax-protected. Usually these allowance and premium by themselves can be 150% or more than the base salary. "Tax-protected" means you are completely shielded from the tax impacts of all the additional income. You have to realize that that is a huge deal! It could cost Chevron 3 to 4 times as much to keep you in these places. That is why Chevron needs to be very judicious and prudent about the expat headcount, allowances, etc.
Yeah it’s funny someone is and expat expert not having had the expat experience. Regarding the tax issue, you are very wrong! Chevron has a tax equlization policy in place whose intent is supposedly for taxes to to be a disincentive to taking an expat assignment. Under the company has KMPG do you taxes. You are deducted a hypothetical tax on your base salary only and then the company pays the remaining taxes due.
If you think you can negotiate double the marketrate salary, you were in the wrong business for many decades. You should have been professional negotiator. Best wishes on your retirement. Not sure I would be on a layoff forum after being retired.
Source = I just started my first expat assignment. It’s a specialized job function for skills I acquired outside of the OG industry. I don’t know that I’ll enjoy it after 3 years, or even after one, but I’m making the most of it and consider myself fortunate to have landed it amongst 10 applicants and not having met the hiring manager (we chatted a few minutes on the phone before applying.
You are pretty sure expats are paid less after taxes? Coming from someone who has never been an expat. Choose a side here. My only argument is that a three year limit is not economically attractive to either party. If those who are not able to get an expat assignment are jealous of the benefit and want a three year “share the wealth “ mandate, it would be better for all concerned to demand a non-expat annual bonus. Three years makes no sense to anybody.
I’m pretty sure the expats are actually paid less after taxes,etc, since it is so much like a vacation. Plus so many wonderful locations - Europe, Asia, Australia, etc
Best advise of the entire thread. Thanks -aucc.
Some of the expat assignments can be superior alternatives to retirement. Enjoy a low key peaceful life with servants, car with driver and paid vacations not bothered by the idiots in San Ramon or Houston and yet earn double the takehome you would have gotten in the US. As long as the gravy train exists, make use of it.
, If times were like in the 50’s, a working wife would not be a problem that gets in the way of any relocation. The entire family went where the man went and men went where it did best for his family. Just another example why society has changed so much. Today, in many cases it takes a husband and wife to both work just to provide the family what only the man earned in the 50’s. Don’t confuse the 50’s being simpler and less cost times. If only the man worked today and the wife stayed home raising the kids, the man’s salary would be much higher than than average to make up for today’s more expensive living.
At this point in my career I would want significant extra compensation to work in Midland ... and any other 3rd world location;-).
Midland is a hazardous location. Have you tried the water?
Rotation positions are offered in locations where it is really difficult to get entire families to relocate to on a residential assignment. In these cases still, for example, TCO the rule of thumb is take home pay (after tax) is around doubled for PSG in the low 20’s.
It’s also becoming more difficult to get families to uproot if they are dual income.... a spouse having to quit their job might not be worth it fo the amount of uplift.
I heard it’s starting to get difficult to fill certain positions in midland so rotations are being proposed. I wonder if they would have uplift! :)
Many of the remaining expat positions are rotating Ops jobs. Those roles typically don’t get the full benefits uplift. Housing is provided on site, for example. No kids or family rotate. Full expenses are in place at home location during days off, etc.
I laugh at the trolls saying that they can get better compensation at their home country than as an expat..... considering your compensation is based off of what you do make at home.... plus location premiums, goods and services, vacation allowance, housing allowance, ect. Consider someone at PSG 21 making $115k base. When sent to a sample location I recently looked at with all ththe benefits and the tax equalization policy, when their taxable income is close to $300K... so how do you do better than $300K? Unless you were a PSG 26-27, you wouldn’t even come close.....
But then again I’d you were indeed at PSG 27 and went as an expat your with all your benefits your taxable income would be around $500K...
You are just showing your lack of understanding.... plus your envy for those few that have indeed landed an expat position. Due to the downturn, many, many expats have been repatriated.
The whole treating expat assignments as treats that need to be shared and rationed to 3 years is a communist idea. It assumes everyone is equal and can preform just the same. I’m sure many people do think that’s the case, but if it was, we would all take turns being CEO, swapping daily.... this kind of reminds me of the “Dunning-Krueger Effect”. The Dunning-Kruger Effect Shows Why Some People Think They're Great Even When Their Work Is Terrible....
A lot of the expat jobs that are left currently are pretty specialized so not sure everyone is fit to do them.
Given that this is layoff forum, I can’t help but think that there’s lots of sour grapes of people bitter that they got shown the door while th company is paying the cost of 2-3 domestic employees to send someone abroad...
8vus Only sensible comment on this thread so far. Also the critics to whom everyone else is deadwood should be aware most of Chevrons senior management completed overseas expat assignments sometime in their career. But there again to the regular trolls who inhabit these threads they are all deadwood also.
Am sure the usual troll will be on here soon to call me deadwood etc, etc but maybe he or she should ask themselves how far they expect to get in the organisation sat at the same office desk for the next twenty or so years? Good luck with your career..
Supply and demand... exactly right. Not just during this short-term downturn but over the long haul. Not just any bit of deadwood off the street, but folks who can invigorate the local office to reach for international level preformance, or, short of that, at least avoid disasters. You are not going to get the right people, in the right place, at the right time with low ball offers. You are not doing your job as a remote asset manager worrying about what deadwood stateside think of your compensation structure. This is not a game, I need folks here long enough to have impact. Three year mandated in and out would be a disaster.
Consider demand and supply. The way I see it, if a BU or project could find local staff that have the skill set, they would not willingly choose an expat over a local.... thi is based on own-group preference but mostly economic. This is the reason you see most USA postings saying expats won’t be considered and some won’t offer relocation.
If we recognize that there is a demand expats, then let’s look at the incentives. No one on their right mind would leave their home base for zero additional pay, unless they really loved something about the specific location. They have to incentivize. There’s a reason why certain places have location premiums of 70% while others only have 10%...... because they s---! So you have to incentivize people to go. If there were thousands of willing applicants for Angola every PDC The new the truck wouldn’t have to pay 70%. Likewise if the benefits were cut across the board as some suggest then there wouks be fewer applicants and the only applicants might be deadwood.
Don’t hate the player - hate the game. If CVX has decided to pay these additional costs while laying off thousands of people turn your attention to management not the individual who is earning money for themselves and thier Family. I have seen CVX waste more money than is imaginable. Blame poor management
, how true! As I go back and picture in my mind those expats I have met over the years, especially those lingering in assignments years on end, I can not but agree how well they fit the far-from-flattering profile you portray of such characters. All the more reason for Chevron to take some serious action. Period.
The majority of employees who take expat assignments are useless pieces of "deadwood" as they say here who can't and did not cut it at the home office. Even you young folks have seen that. Have you had to try and work with many of these idiots? The only way they can get a decent paycheck is to agree to getting shipped off to Timbuktu where no one wants to go.. Also many people (think A-holes) who cannot get along with others are offered that to get rid of them. That's so pathetic. Everyone that I ever met doing that was either incompetent or gaming the system and a d---beat that no one wanted to be around (also A-hole). A few, but it's rare, were OK but so financially distraught that they had no choice to get out of debt. Source = 42 years O&G experience, happily retired,
, I couldn't have said it better. The benefits/allowances should be taken away after 3 or 4 years. Current system is unfair.
the concept of expat is a legacy from a pre-internet, pre-globalised economy. Where supposedly more advance countries with folks who are better educated are placed in critical positions in foreign less-developed locations. In today's evironment - I don't see how or why expat should exist in supporting functions like IT or HR.
These are just folks milking the system. Just like any other company, you should go back to local wages after x years abroad. Having lived there and assimilated into the culture; or pack your bags and come home
I have never understood why support functions like SCM, IT and HR go beyond PSG25 or so. They seem like jobs one could do out of high school.
Clean up SCM which is a haven for do nothing expats. They are paid big salaries with fantastic benefits and are often in leadership positions. Those positions allow them to get rid of home based employees by using PDC selections. Expat positions, if not eliminated, should be limited to 3 years. Then the highly paid expat should go back to their home country with their big bucks.